| Re: Black Herons?
I am finding it hard to answer this thread correctly, following the last few statements. Lets be honest its me that is coming over a bit hard.
Everyone that knows me knows that I am the first to help, not hinder, anyone that has an ID query. Just look through all the threads I have taken part in regarding the Birds Forum, and to a lesser degree the moths section as well. I always answer with facts, and where possible photos to back up what I am saying but this thread is a bit different.
First of all you have to take this thread in sections. It opened up with a query about two dark Heron like birds and at first a few ideas were mooted about regarding what they could have been, Cormorant being the most popular.
The thread then changes a bit when photos of a reef heron are posted, telling us that the birds were exactly like that (even down to the positioning of the birds in the photo - except direction of flight). It was rightfully pointed out that these birds would not be over here. It was also pointed out that there are no black birds of a similar look to a heron that could be here and yet more joined in with similar sightings.
First of all. If you are novice birders and you ask questions from those that know why is it you suddenly disagree with them. All those that do know what they are talking about on this thread have been uniform in their answers. I have been more vocal than the others but basically we are singing from the same hymn sheet. We are not saying this to have a go at you but to try and direct you into the possible ID's they can or can't be.
When we state more or less at the beginning why it can't be certain birds why do you then persevere with what they are not. The learning curve is to listen to those that know and learn from it.
What should have happened was too look more closely at what you saw and bring in other factors / possibilities. What was the light like. Was you looking at a bird with the sky behind it. Are you sure it was all black. Could it possibly be seen as a silhouette. Are you sure about the body shape / size. All these factors have to be taken into account, but that doesn't seem to have happened on this thread, as it seems that what you think they are have to be right, or something very similar (even though you are being told there isn't anything like that).
When a thread goes like that you have to wonder why a question has been asked in the first place if you are not prepared to take on board what is being said by those that know what they are talking about.
Because of this I decided to take a hard line with this thread, something I can't recall ever doing before.
In the end you can call the bird what you like as you saw it, but I would have hoped that this thread could have been used as a learning tool.
This thread is split into two camps. Birdwatchers with experience and those without as much experience. Both camps appear in unison to other members of their respective experiences, i.e the likes of aeshna5 and Paul Chambers etc agree with me. The likes of Buzzy and Stephen p etc agree with catten80.
When that happens frustration sets in and nothing is learnt, but instead of thinking that perhaps we have a reason for giving the answers the way we have you think we are attacking you. You also acknowledge children as possibly reading this thread. Why that is mentioned I have no idea but any child that is interested in information would have wondered why knowledgeable members answered are being ignored the way they have been.
I'll put it to those that think they know what these birds were. Please tell us what you think they are, having taken all the points raised in this thread (that includes everyone that has taken part in this debate.
For me the only guaranteed black bird in Britain is Cormorant and Shag (of heron type shape).
John
John |